Where Are Those Kids?
Posted at 12:24 pm April 13, 2009 by Anastasia HorningSince Bai Yun is doing extremely well, I thought you might want an update on the kids. Su Lin, now 3 1/2 years old, is growing like a weed, already outweighing her father at 181 pounds (82 kilograms). She definitely takes after mom’s side! We are conducting hormone studies with Su Lin to see exactly where she’s at, maturity-wise. Female pandas can come into their first estrus when they are four to five years old. Looking more like her mother every day, she’s our next big hope for breeding!
Zhen Zhen, our little one, is now 20 months old and she’s (are you ready for it?) almost 100 pounds (45 kilograms)! She’s doing very well living on her own. Learning to stay outside more and more, she’s living next door to her big sister, Su Lin. We haven’t really seen a lot of interaction between the two up in the trees, like we did with Su Lin and Mei Sheng, but Zhen Zhen is quite interested in the bear on the other side of her wall.
Since Bai Yun and Gao Gao are so close to a possible mating, it’s very important that the girls stay in the classroom exhibits, away from mom and dad. Pandas usually have a mature scent gland at three years old; if Su Lin were to come into mom’s enclosure and scent, we could confuse Gao Gao. But as of Saturday, the researchers and keepers were very hopeful that Bai and Gao could be put together for breeding very soon. Keep checking the blogs, and check out the Panda Cam!
Anastasia Horning is a panda narrator at the San Diego Zoo.
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April 13th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Anastasia, who would you breed Su Lin with when the time is right? I can’t believe that she is almost 4 trs old
April 13th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
How long is Su Lin scheduled to be staying in San Diego? Will she be going back to China for breeding?
April 13th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Even more great news!
Aha! I knew that was Zhen Zhen on the C27-28 cameras! (I know our ZZ.) The camera list basically said that Su Lin was in both exhibits, which I doubted, and the bear was going in an out of the tunnel that leads to ZZ’s C11 bedroom. That little bear looked exactly like ZZ (as someone else also noticed).
But it’s even better news that Bai and Gao are getting closer to the great moment, and that the Zoo is hoping that Su Lin may be getting ready for breeding. Does that mean that like Tai Shan, she won’t be going back to China this year? An article in the Washington Post last week said that Tai Shan won’t be going to China because of the earthquake. While that’s certainly not the reason I’d like to see, it does make sense that none of the kids will be returning until things are better in Wolong.
Are these silly speculations on my part?
April 13th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Glad to hear the “girls” are doing so well. It will be fun to see how they react when they have an opportunity to know about the Howdy Gate. Since Su Lin is already familiar with it, it will be interesting to see how quickly she goes there once it is open, and how she will encourage her little sis to join her there. Since she was female and Mei Sheng was male, another interesting opportunity for research to compare how siblings of the same sex interact versus one from each sex.
Watching daily to see how the “couple” are progressing.
April 13th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
How wonderful that Su Lin is so much like her mother. What would be the process in breeding, if and when she comes into estrus in, say the next year? Since all the U. S. bears are related, would you get sperm from China? Or, perhaps bring in a new male panda? Or would you give her birth control until she is sent to China?
April 13th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
the panda children are certainly growing and gaining weight. I can’t believe that zhen zhen weighs almost 100lbs!! wow! I see her on the cam today chowing down the boo and getting along just fine on her own!
I miss seeing her and Bai together when she was just a small fry! it was so much fun watching all her antics. but, unfortunately, they can’t stay little forever. it just seems like that time went by soooo fast!!!!
hopefuly, gao gao and bai yun will come thru once again for us! unless, of course, bai is too tired and un-interested to do this all over again so soon. whatever happens, happens!! we will love them both any-way! right? we are just suckers though for the babies aren’t we?? ha ha!
April 13th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Big thanks for the update, Anastasia. We certainly don’t want Gao to become confused! I can’t believe how big the girls getting. It’s hard to believe those little sticks of butter have grown so fast.
I hope all of you who are fortunate enough to visit the pandas here and abroad have a WONDERFUL time. Tell them Auntie Lin says hi from me.
And from the previous update, thank you for letting me know about Cam #1 being slow at NZ. I had been thinking it was off line or something.
April 13th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Oh please say you just gave us a hint by saying Su Lin is the next big hope for breeding?? Maybe there is a chance she can stay given the rebuilding in China and lack of space for the pandas?? Wouldn’t that be something!
Very happy to hear the updates on both Su and our little ZZ. Not so little anymore ZZ I should say, I knew she had grown. Very happy to hear and see she is adjusting well to her new life and curious about big sista next door!
April 13th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Where oh where has “our little girl gone?” She was on C27 a few minutes ago eating her boo to her heart’s content. When I checked back there was no panda anywhere in sight.
I just check in on NZP and saw Mei Xiang very determined to eat her fresh springtime grass that has been mentioned in their posts before. She was checking out samples all over the outdoor exhibit today. On her way inside she had a training session with one of the keepers, I couldn’t see which one. She watched them closely bringing in a big load of boo for her supper. Then they sat down beside her with a container of fruit which she happily ate while she went through her paces. It was funny to see how she scooted her hind quarters up to the mesh while all four paws were up on the mesh. Then she laid down on her back with belly up. It appeared they were going through the ultrasound training. Since the last one was April 7, it is likely they will do another in the next couple of weeks. She then went inside and batted her puzzle feeder ball around the indoor exhibit. I could hear lots of children in the background and am sure they loved watching the pandas outside all day. Every time I checked there were large crowds at all the exhibits I could see. I am glad to know that all the visitors had a great zoo day.
The only way I can tell who ZZ is is by her smaller size. I can tell Gao by his ear. But now that Su Lin is so big, unless I know what exhibit camera I am looking at, and who is on that camera, I can’t tell the difference between Su Lin and Bai Yun. Apparently Hua Mei also turned out to be a large female panda based on reports of Angie when she visited her in 2007. So, it looks like Pan Pan’s large body size genes continue to be passed down to his progeny. Tian is also large, and he is also a grandson of Pan Pan. It will be interesting to see how big Mei Sheng and Tai Shan grow to as they become fully mature.
Since Tai Shan doesn’t have as uniquely valuable genes he may be able to stay longer, especially since males tend to reach sexual maturity later than females. Su Lin is as valuable or more so than Hua Mei, so I am sure everyone is excited to get her genes from Gao Gao into the gene pool ASAP.
April 13th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Do male pandas come into breeding at about the same age? You mentioned Su Lin being the next breeding opportunity but of course we don’t have a male panda for her right? What about Washington’s Tai Shan. He hasn’t gone to China yet either has he and he could be a good choice if he were old enough. I suppose too though Su Lin could breed with any of the other male pandas in the U.S.
Do we have the facilities to handle two breeding females and would China agree to this? I would think they’d be happy if it meant more baby pandas and I know we’d love it.
April 13th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Thanks for a great update on the two SDZ youngsters. It would be phenomenal if Su Lin were to be the next generation of breeding pandas at the SDZ. It’s part of my perfect panda fantasy that she would get to stay on and have a male panda join her from China, while Bai and Gao “retire” in San Diego. We all will be pondering whether the reference to Su Lin’s future breeding was a hint or wishful thinking by all of us.
#10 Peggy…Tai and Su are cousins (Bai is half-sister of Tian Tian). I had hoped for a meeting between Tai and Mei Lan but they are cousins, too!
#9 Margaret…Pan Pan is Tian’s father and Tai is Pan Pan’s grandson.
April 13th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
Speaking of Gao Gao’s genes, did Jennifer say anything about Mei Sheng breeding this year? If I remember correctly, he should be ready this year to spread his valuable DNA.
April 13th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Since Su Lin is supposed to go to China this year, I believe the reference to her breeding status was a general comment. I don’t think she can breed in the US because there are no available males here. One would have to be brought in from another continent and that has not been publically discussed. However, comments were posted at the end of December/ early January that Su Lin would likely go to China late in the 4th quarter of 2009, or early 2010. Unless there is no space for her there, due to her high genetic value the original plan is likely to be carried out. It has been publically speculated that Tai Shan may not go to China for another year. His sexual maturity is at least that far off, so they can wait to get him to China.
April 13th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
It would be fantastic if Su Lin could stay and, as it were, ‘take over’ from her Mum. Like everyone else, I am wondering who would be the most suitable male panda for her. I so hope she can stay and that China would agree to this. In the meantime, go Gao Gao and Bai.
April 13th, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Forgot to add, I just love Su Lin’s gorgeous smile.
April 14th, 2009 at 5:53 am
Ann #2, with the new agreement signed at the end of last year the pandas will be here another 5 yrs so that makes an interesting thought as who they would breed Su with.
April 14th, 2009 at 7:59 am
Thanks for all your updates! I’m heart sick to think that Su and Tai can’t hook up – I had been wishing for that since both were born. What’s the relationship with Mei Lan – if it’s on the maternal side, perhaps Yang would be a suitable suitor for Su. Also, what’s the scoop on LeLe of Memphis? Maybe he could do the good work with Su. Those poor folks in Memphis have had such disappointment, they would probably be thrilled to participate in a breeding exchange.
Keep up your wonderful work.
April 14th, 2009 at 10:38 am
I think what was posted in December or January was something to the effect that “no plans have been made for Su Lin at this time,” so it’s not really known when she will go to China or if she will go. We can all hope, even if it’s not likely that Su will stay. It was a foregone conclusion for a long time that Tai was going to China this year but that’s no longer the case. The source of the public speculation about Tai Shan’s future in this country began with the head of NZ’s Center for Species Survival saying that it’s unlikely that Tai will be moved to China this year, maybe not even next year, not because Tai’s genes aren’t valuable or because he hasn’t reached reproductive maturity, but because of the upheaval resulting from the earthquake. Unless Mr. Wildt went out on a limb and spoke out of turn, I’m assuming he knows more than I, so it seems there is more than a good chance that Tai is staying. I’m sure we’re all aware that what we hope for may not happen, but there’s nothing wrong with hoping as long as it’s in the best interest of the species and the individual bears themselves.
April 14th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Melissa #18, under panda high jinx dec 26 no mention of Su lin only that pandas will stay another 5 years
April 14th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Perhaps Anastasia could post a “refresher course” on the speculations of who goes where/when. (Although SDZ may only be allowed to post what they know about SDZ pandas. ) Also about the inner-links in the blood lines. Seems Gao Gao may be the only one whose genes are not linked with any of the other zoos’ bears. (But I could be wrong!) Personally, I wish they could all stay forever! It would be nice if China could send over a female for Tai Shan, and a male for Su Lin.
April 18th, 2009 at 10:33 am
#19 Barbara…December 12, 2008 “New Digs for Pandas,” moderator’s note on Comment 65 indicates that the adult pandas (Bai and Gao) will be staying on for 5 years while the young pandas born at the zoo go to China at four years of age, per the agreement. Additionally, January 21, 2009 “A Memorable Un-Birthday,” moderator’s note on Comment 9 says, in reference to a query as to whether Su Lin was staying or leaving, “No plans have been made as yet regarding Su Lin.” It is true that the loan agreements for all the zoos detail a point in time at which the cubs will be sent to China, but those terms have not proven to be set in stone, as was the case when Tai Shan was supposed to go to China after his second birthday. SDZ’s previous agreement, if I read an old news story correctly, indicated that cubs born at SDZ would be sent to China at three years of age, although they both remained at SDZ until age 4. Things change depending on the circumstances in China and at our zoos.