Polar Bear Breeding Season, Part 2
Posted at 5:25 pm March 3, 2009 by JoAnne Simerson
Tatqiq
We do keep a close eye on things, and we’re finding that our “little” princess is gaining some confidence and we think will probably be a better match as a buddy to Chinook when we leave breeding season. Also, you might be interested to know that Tatqiq is now not only taller than Chinook but weighs more (Tatqiq is 561 pounds or 254 kilograms to Chinook’s 539 pounds or 244 kilograms)! We really want to try to keep all three together, as it should help to keep them in relationships that will last the rest of their lives.
There are no plans for breeding Tatqiq. Polar bears are part of the Association of Zoos and Aquarium (AZA) Species Survival Plan. This takes into account the genetic health of our zoo populations as well as the best care for our polar bears. We have learned over the years that if we can keep bears together, they do better, especially if they are siblings. Since Kalluk can represent genetically and Chinook can represent her line, it was decided they were the best pairing and that for long-term care, to keep all three together would be a great option! If Chinook is pregnant, she will be in her den, giving birth and raising her cubs and away from any other bears for up to two years. If Tatqiq weren’t here, Kalluk would be alone. So you see, in this case, three bears are better than two!
As for a timeline, polar bear gestation is estimated to be 195 to 265 days. They do have delayed implantation. So IF Chinook is pregnant, she would now have a fertilized egg in the form of a blastocyst floating around in her uterus. At some point, the blastocyst implants. We think this may be what triggers a female to build a den and to seclude herself. Sometime after 30 days in the den she will give birth. She will then spend another three months in the den caring for the cubs before venutring out to hunt. Females will go as long as five months without any food during this time. And, unfortunately, that time is extending to as much as eight months in some wild areas of polar bear habitat because of the loss of ice.
We expect Chinook to have cubs sometime this fall IF fertilization happened. And yes, we hope to have a camera on to document it all!
Update: I hope everyone saw the great playtime Wednesday afternoon. Chinook, Kalluk, AND Tatqiq running all over the exhibit, jumping off the point, and lots of water wrestling. Yes, all three together! Just think what the snow day on March 21 will be: yipee!!!!!!
JoAnne Simerson is a senior keeper at the San Diego Zoo.
Watch the polar bears daily on Polar Cam.
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March 3rd, 2009 at 8:06 pm
Thanks for the excellent, informative update!! Glad to learn there maybe will be a camera so everyone can share exciting moments.
March 3rd, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Thank you, so very much, for this wonderful update on all three bears! I am glad that Tatqiq is being pampered and well cared for and given the option to go out or not, which is a pretty neat idea! Kudos to the team! And yes, I agree about keeping the three together and not moving or breeding out Tatqiq, which was a little personal worry of mine, for Kalluk and she would be together for the long time that Chinook would be caring for cubs, if they are in the stars, so to speak! And if not, the three bears do get along so well during the non-breeding season! And Tatqiq is getting quite the appetite! Good for her! I am sure she will be glad when things are back to normal, though if Chinook goes into hiding with her cubs, I am sure they will wonder where she is and miss her. At least the siblings will have each other and Chinook will be busy with baby or two! Now I will sleep well, tonight! Thank you!!! Give them all a kiss for me! Hehehehe….
March 3rd, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Thank You so much Joanne for answering our questions. It is comforting to know that the 3 bears do still get along and are happy for the most part together, judging from your blog. I do have a few questions though. Regarding the part where you say Chinook is happy with Tatqiq around, as long as she stays near the waterfall area. Does she find Tatqiq to be a threat during breeding season ? Is Chinook, for lack of better words, protecting her relationship with her mate Kalluk ? We know Tatqiq is not a threat regarding Kalluk, but does she think Tatqiq is competition so to speak ? If Chinook is pregnant and has a little one, and dens up for a year or two with her cub(s), will she eventually be reunited with Kalluk, and will the
cub(s) ever have contact with Kalluk and or Tatqiq. One more question. After a cub(s) is/are born, and old enough to be around other adult bears, would Tatqiq play the part of 2nd mother to the cub(s) ?
So looking forward to this if it does infact happen. And cant wait to see first time mother Chinook
and cub(s) on polar cam when the time comes. Thank you again Joanne. =)
March 4th, 2009 at 8:21 am
Hoping for little furballs!!! Thanks for the update.
March 4th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Thank you for all this information JoAnne. It’s certainly a lot to take in! I do so hope that Chinook will have a little one or two. It would be magic.
March 4th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Thanks, JoAnne, for all the info. You keepers totally rock! I always knew you guys had the master plan, but all us watchers are keeper-wannabes, and want to be assured every day that everything is OK. It never occured to my feeble mind that Chinook would be the one who would drive Tatqiq away. Because Kalluk is so big, I only saw him as the protector of his woman. It all makes sense now. I’m glad for Tatqiq that you are giving her “princess” treatment. She looks forlorn, at times, when we can see her. We are all “holding our collective breaths”, until the little cubs are here. Dare we hope for three?
March 4th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Thanks, JoAnn, for answering our questions and for all the interesting information. The IF tends to indicate that the breeding everyone witnessed on the cam and in person is hopefully going to result in a cub(s).
The decision about breeding Tatqiq vs Kalluk makes perfect sense, since they are twins and should have same genetics to pass along. As you said it also makes sense to have three of them to spend time together as time goes on instead of them having to be solitary, even though males and females are solitary in the wild. It is interesting research that has shown siblings in captivity do better if kept together for life. You have plenty of room to handle all this and the bears and their fans greatly appreciate knowing that you plan to keep them together for life.
March 4th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
How wonderful for us to receive another update on the bears! Thank you for all the work done by everyone involved.
Tatqiq may be bigger than Chinook, but she still looks pretty slender to me compared to her brother Kalluk! She is our “princess” indeed!
March 4th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Hi JoAnne – These are indeed exciting times for the Polar Bear Plunge. I hope this year will be the year for our magnificent bears, Kalluk and Chinook. I can image how you and the other polar bear keepers are feeling during this breeding season. It’s going to be so wonderful to have a baby polar bear at the San Diego Zoo. I realize that there is a big “IF” in the mix, however, we are all feeling positive and pray that all our dreams will come true. I hope our beautiful Chinook will be successful this year and deliver a happy and healthy little cub, or cubs, into the world – for you and the rest of the polar bear team to watch over and pamper.
Thanks again, JoAnne, you and the polar bear team are the best. Please keep us updated as soon as you have more news to share.
March 5th, 2009 at 8:13 am
It’s great to hear that Chinook and Kalluk are officially a “love match.” It will be a long, anxious wait through the spring and summer, wondering whether Chinook will have a cub or two (or three!). I look forward to future updates and learning more about polar bear pregnancy. Comparing and contrasting polar bear breeding, estrus and pregnancy with that of giant pandas is really interesting. And I’m glad that there will be a cam in the den to catch a possible birth. That is, as my nephew would say, “Way cool!”
Thanks, JoAnne!
March 5th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
Thank you for the update, JoAnne. I was not fortunate enough to witness all the romance going on. My daughter did, though and she would email me and tell me what was happening. By the time I would get the cam on, the action was over. Still – I am way excited about the possibility of cubs!! Polar cubs and a panda cub or 2 in the same year – what could be better than that..?
March 5th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Here’s some more information for polar bear lovers: it looks as if there may be romance blooming at the Memphis Zoo polar bear yard. Payton and one of their females (I cannot tell the 2 females apart), have been inseparable today. And the other female has been relegated to the opposite side of the beach. I emailed the keepers to confirm, but haven’t yet had a reply. With 2 possible panda cubs on the way, and now possible polar bear cubs in the brew, things are looking up in the zoo worlds. We can only hope for 2 sets of polar bear twins.
March 6th, 2009 at 7:25 am
Please, someone please, tell me what the Polar was doing this a.m. at 5:45. I couldn’t tell who it was, but very strange behavior………for a good 6-7 minutes, walking forward several steps, then backing straight back to the edge of the pool, almost to fall in. Kinda looked like moonwalk when it was in reverse.
March 6th, 2009 at 9:44 am
Did Kalluk do the backward shuffle all night? He was doing it when I signed off last night and this morning when I checked in. Amazing how he knows just where to stop before going in the water.
Is there a theory as to what the polar bear right and left cheek kiss is done for? You especially see Kalluk doing it to the females.
March 6th, 2009 at 11:29 am
I am watching the exact same thing! It is almost 1pm on the east coast. Kalluk is walking towards one of the mulch beds, where it looks like a bear is in, but then walking backwards towards the plunge and then walks forwards again. This is such a strange behaviour. I can’t tell if he is trying to lure the bear (Chinook?) out to be with him, if this is some strange display of courtship (which I doubt since they had that down pat!) or if she is losing interest in him, like last year, which might explain why Tatqiq is being allowed into the play again? Repetitive behaviour usually means frustration. He must be wearing himself out. Poor bears! And I thought hormones did a job on me!
Moderator’s note: JoAnne tells us that Kalluk’s behavior appears to be in repsonse to Chinook’s waning interest in breeding.
March 6th, 2009 at 11:55 am
aaah.. so Chinook’s got a headache! Poor Kalluk…!
March 6th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
#16 Cheryl:
Very funny… but probably appropriate. You guys crack me up. I had been wondering when Chinook would begin to lose interest. Guess this is what happens. And life goes on….even with polar bears.
March 6th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
Aha! I thought I noticed a difference in her behaviour this past week. Maybe the deed is done! This happened last year, too. Is it around the same time? I wonder if San Diego’s warmer weather makes bears in keep have shorter breeding seasons? This certainly is a learning experience for all of us. I can only imagine what you all must go through. Poor Kalluk. He is probably wondering why the love of his life no longer wants him hanging all over her. That is tough, but if I remember last year correctly, it wasn’t long before we found him jumping back in the pool playing with toys! I also remember Chinook going through a stage where she didn’t want to come out onto the plunge with him because of this same situation. Is that happening yet or do you think Tatqiq’s presence will make Chinook more comfortable, like a chaperone of sorts? I knew that was why Tatqiq was invited to play with the gang! I am getting to know my bears behaviour!!!
March 6th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Looks like Tatqiq is going after Chinook with a vengeance now that Kalluk is not protecting her.
March 6th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Will she or won’t she? The fun goes on. It looks like Kalluk is trying to entice Chinook to join him in the water at 12:00 PST. He is swimming up to her on the beach, she comes to the edge of the rocks, then he flops on his back and swims away doing the backstroke. They sure are enjoying each other’s company lately.
Or could it be Tatqiq he is trying to get to join him if Chinook is losing interest in his attention???
March 6th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Our darling bears were having such a good time earlier — it was so nice to see all three of them frolicking in the water together. Apparently Kalluk’s loss of consortium is Tatqiq’s gain!
March 6th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
I am really hoping that you all will have a baby polar bear cub or two this year! Hopefully Chinook and Kalluk did their thing before Chinook started to lose interest in the mating thing! Keep us updated on the progress of these 2 bears, ok? Especially if and when Chinook is hopefully pregnant! From what I have read, heard, and watched about polar bears, they can be pretty unpredictable during breeding seasons, which is why we don’t hear of polar bear births in captivity very often. I don’t know if you all are in favor of this method, but maybe you all can consider having Chinook artificially inseminated with Kalluk’s sperm and see where that leads towards a pregnancy. Let us know what you are doing and deciding, ok? Love your updates about these 3 crazy bears!
Chari Mercier
St. Pete, FL
March 6th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Ok,1;29 P.M. Pacific time here,and OOH LA LA! Kalluk is loving on Chinook! Ooh,could this be true love?
March 6th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
That’s a bear with just ONE THING on his mind — bless his heart.
March 6th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
I am looking at Chinoon sleeping or lounging in the mulch bed and Kalluk laying down just outside it. Sort of like when you send your husband to sleep on the sofa because he snores too much! This cracks me up!
March 6th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
And Chinook is kinda rubbing it in… rolling around on her back in the mulch… and there’s Kalluk, pacing below. Oh my… what’s a bear to do? Maybe there’s a game on…
March 7th, 2009 at 11:26 am
It is about 10 AM PST on Saturday and the backstroke swimming and watcher from the edge of the rocks are at it again. Is this Chinook watching Kalluk swim, or is it Tatqiq watching Kalluk or the other way around? I forget whether Kalluk or Tatqiq loves the water the most. Since there are only two bears in view, my assumption is that it is Chinook and Kalluk. But, if she is not as happy with his attention, she may be off dozing on the beach while he and Tatqiq spend time together again.
March 7th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Chinook is doing her version of the backward shuffle this Saturday morning…swimming back and forth continuously. She did this once before and then slept all the next day.
March 7th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Too funny. The one on the rocks bent over like they were going to dive in, got half way in and backed up and walked away. They reached forward with their head like they were getting a drink or testing the water and decided not to go in after all. There is a pile of carrots on the rocks at the edge of the water, but so far they are ignoring them. Guess that snack will come after play time and before nap time.
March 7th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
I saw Kullek walking back and forth to Chinook, it was around dinner time in the east coast. First time i have seen that, it was so funny, I kept watching, cause too, I thought he too was going off into the water. I also saw zhen zhen hanging on the door and sent everyone a post card including myself. I had to have a copy of that.Oh! The elephantsb are so precious sticking their trunks up to the keepers when they walk around the inclosure. Muse is the one with his trunk to get a treat, the other three babies can not reach yet. So many animals, so much fun and laughing going on in my house. I’m bedridden and this is my fun. I thank all zoo keepers vets and everyone involved, please put a camera inside the elephant house, I want to see how thet all fit in there. Thanks!
March 8th, 2009 at 9:42 am
Chinook is doing her lovely, seductive laps and Kalluk is standing on the shore watching her with a very somber look on his face! To play or not to play…
March 8th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
For Rita: The cheek touching is just that. They’re greeting each other, and since they’re coming that close, it shows that they have very fond feelings toward each other.
Polar bears often back up toward water’s edge or [I suppose] an area of dirt to poop. Could Kalluk not simply be constipated? Or — alternative theory — Chinook’s scent is strong in these areas.
Here are some questions, Joanne. Since they are of different genders, Kalluk and Tatqiq cannot be genetically identical. They came from the wild. I can see that they look a lot alike, but do they necessarily have the same father? And just to clarify, isn’t it true that there might be more than one blastocyst involved?
Also am I understanding you right that you’re leaving the three of them together, in the hopes that they will again be integrated after the cubs arrive? Is there not the possibility that Chinook might feel protective of the cubs and hostile toward Tatqiq?
Finally, is the situation also not that to breed Tatqiq, you’d have to introduce another male or move Tatqiq elsewhere, both of which would be very tricky?
And I’d like to hear how Chari thinks you could get Kalluk to donate sperm. Do you have some of those special polar bear magazines for him to look at while he does it?
JoAnne responds: Kalluk and Tatqiq are not genetically identical but they represent the same genetic line. And we don’t know if they share paternity or not. We have not done any genetic identification on any of our zoo bears in North America but it may be a possibility down the road. DNA work is very expensive! But any of our wild-born bears that have come in as siblings could potentially share only the maternal line. In addition, there has not been any significant work done on siblings in the wild either to identify how many fathers for any sibling groups. But we suspect multiple fathers are a possibility. Again, very little in truly known about the specifics and details of polar bear reproduction.
Polar bears can give birth to as many as 4 cubs. Yes, Chinook possibly could have more than one blastocyst; this is something we won’t ever know! Even if she gave birth to 2 cubs, there may have been 3 blastocysts or 4. We certainly have seen how giant pandas can develop more fetuses than they birth.
And no, we would not integrate Chinook and her cubs with Kalluk and Tatqiq. We would manage them as 2 groups until the cubs were old enough and then look to putting our threesome back together or mixing and matching!
March 9th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Oh no! Thought I would check in with the bears to see what the day was bringing. Chinook is rolling in the mulch bed while Kalluk does his backward shuffle. No sign of Tatqiq, who probably thinks the two of them are very silly bears!
March 9th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Aha! A closeup of Kalluk and Chinooks’ little love shack, complete with burlap pieces scattered about! No bears in sight, but perhaps I missed something while taking my own nap. Are the hormones still kicking in, off and on?
March 9th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
Joanne, thanks for your insights.
March 10th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
I am watching a very peaceful bear sleeping in a shaded cubby, on their palm and burlaps pieces, with chewy bones scattered about. Life is good! What a lovely poster this would make!
March 11th, 2009 at 10:03 am
I’ve been watching Chinook doing laps in the plunge. I guess she is determined to keep her girlish figure if she is pregnant, by maintaining her excercise routine. She is a delight to watch and so sleek in the water.
March 11th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
I saw Chinook and Kalluk have lunch yesterday!
March 11th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Awww. Chinook and Kalluk are having a nap together in the love nest. Happy bears! The old married couple, again. Kalluk won her back and doesn’t have to sleep on the sofa, for now! My, what big feet they have!!!
March 12th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Debi #39, I have one of Chinook’s foot paintings. They have VERY big feet (and toes). They look very fetching in shades of green and purple/blue.
March 12th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
Susan #40, I envy you your Polar Bear Art! They were lovely! I would be happy with a postcard of them!
Earlier I saw Kalluk partaking in a meal while Chinook practiced her elegant laps! If she has cubs, I wonder if they, too, will swim so elegantly, being taught by Mom. If they were raised by Kalluk, he would have them all doing bellyflops and divebombs!! When older their Auntie Tatqiq can teach them how to eat out the middle of a plastic container cover and wear it as a fetching necklace!!! Yikes!
March 13th, 2009 at 10:15 am
Debi # 41, it sounds like we could be in for some very talented and creative cubs — fingers crossed!
March 14th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
I wonder if polar bear cubs are as tiny and screaming as panda bear cubs. I watched panda cub beening born and I jerked when it screamed, just like the mother did. I will have to turn my sound down a little on the computer next time. Does anyone know about the new baby elephant at San Diego. Born yesterday, early morning and is a big boy, a what joy for everyone! Pictures are being taken like crazy!Go take a look!
Moderator’s note: View photos of the baby elephant in our What’s New? section.
http://www.sandiegozoo.org/whatsnew/
March 15th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Does anyone know, which one of the bears is the one that does the back stroke in the plung, repetitivly(sp) every morning. For some reason it seem slike it would be Tatqiq, but not sure. Whom ever it is, they do the same motion over and over again. It’s quite funny to watch, but I never get around to seeing it to the end, (when they tire out). If anyone knows, thank you !
Moderator’s note: Keepers tell us it is Chinook.
March 16th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Chinook has been having fun in the pool with Kalluk walking along the side. Every now and then she swims up to the side and almost touches Kalluk’s nose! They look so sweet. It must be polar love.
March 17th, 2009 at 10:38 am
Watching Chinook do her lovely laps! I love the way she does such a straight line and arches her back to splash backward. Lots of fun enrichments in and around the plunge, too! But I don’t see the other bears at present!
March 18th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
One of the bears was using the log in the pool as a pillow and almost looked asleep! Aaah, the life of luxury. Can I be a polar bear at the SDZ please?
March 19th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
JoAnne, today I saw a pile of little branches or logs, does Kalluk break them off the palm or pine bushes or do you just give him those along with his black tub and blue bucket I saw him playing with. I also saw him drag stuff through the water and put palm frongs on the shelf by the glass and it is so funny.
Thanks to everyone involved with taking care of animals.
Moderator’s note: The keepers provide the browse pieces for the bears.
March 21st, 2009 at 6:56 am
JoAnne, thanks for providing answer to the many questions I’ve had about polar bear breeding. I LOVE to watch Kalluk, Tatqiq and Chinook every day. It’s therapy for depression AND RECESSION! Thank you so much for letting us have a cam in the den when the time comes! I’m looking forward to today — IT’S SNOW DAY!!!
March 21st, 2009 at 10:00 am
Help, the Polar cam is out of focus !! Must see bears on snow !! =)
March 22nd, 2009 at 9:27 am
All:
I had the pleasure of meeting JoAnne Simerson during Bear Bonanza Days at the Zoo yesterday. She is the polar bear keeper who writes this blog. I told her I’d pass on to everyone that if we’ll blog about what we’re doing to reduce our carbon footprint, she’ll blog even more about our precious polar bears!
JoAnne, thank you for talking with me yesterday. It was great fun to see our three bears enjoying the snow! Please blog more! To reduce my carbon footprint, I recycle everything possible, drive a fuel efficient car, use energy saving light bulbs, and keep my water heater on a low setting.
March 22nd, 2009 at 12:20 pm
I am so cross. I forgot to put Snow Day on my calendar and completely forgot. When I tuned in at my normal time the cam was out of focus (as Susan #51 mentioned). I hope there will be a video of some of the highlights?
March 22nd, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Susan #51 and JoAnne. What a wonderful idea! I was able to watch the bears in the snow, on the cam, but the picture was very blurry. I did see some digging, rolling and face rubbing going on, though, and it looked like they were having a wonderful time!
To reduce my carbon footprint, I put all lights on dimmers and only light up the room we are in. For the hallway and bathroom we have nightlights on censors so we can do stuff in the dim! I only burn soy, bayberry and beeswax candles. We keep the house at 56 during the night and 63 during the day. I don’t like heat! I must be part polar bear!! We have an excellent recycling process in our town which we use regularly. I bring clothes to Salvation Army, things no longer used to consignment shops, hold yard sales, give used books and DVD’s to stores or the library or to nursing homes, and my small volkswagen of 20 1/2 years still has not turned over and had been my one and only car! I walk as often as I can or car pool. And my husband works from home most of the time, so he rarely has to commute and when he does it is only 15 minutes away.
March 23rd, 2009 at 5:16 am
JoAnne, I reduce my carbon footprint by recycling, using CFC bulbs (I only use them when I’m in a room. I turn out the lights when I’m not) and most importantly I don’t drive as much. I have a fuel efficient car but I live close to work and walk as much as possible…I hate to drive especially in traffic and avoid jams entirely! I have my computer set on the energy saving settings too. I do ANYTHING to save on my electric bill because I really HATE to “donate” to the energy companies.
More polar bear blogs PLEASE!!! LOL
March 23rd, 2009 at 4:57 pm
Susan #51 – I also was at the Bear Bonanza on Saturday. Unfortunately, we missed JoAnne’s talk. We started our adventure at the top of Bear Canyon. When we arrived, JoAnne had already left the building.
JoAnne is very knowledgeable and her talks are always very interesting, humorous and informative. She’s the best.
When we arrived at the Polar Bear Plunge, I noticed that only one bear was standing in the back area of the exhibit (near the waterfall) – I believe it was Tatqiq. At the time, Kalluk and Chinook were nowhere to be seen. So I decided to check out the polar bear “lounging area”. It can only be seen from the road. Well, “lo and behold”, there were Chinook and Kalluk sun bathing on the ledge. They seemed happy and content. After watching them for about five minutes, we decided to check out the zebras across the road. Within seconds, we heard a loud roar coming from the polar bears. We immediately returned to see what was going on. All three bears were standing in a circle and they appeared to be arguing.
Lindsey, a keeper at the Polar Bear Plunge, arrived a few minutes later to check things out. I told Lindsey what had transpired. Lindsey informed us that breeding season is over and that the three bears have returned to their normal routine. The growling is just part of their normal behavior. The growling spat lasted a few minutes and then calm returned. The bears were all good friends again. She also told us that Kalluk’s appetite has returned and he is eating more than ever. I asked Lindsey why Kalluk has a black ring on the top of is head and around his neck. Lindsey told me that the black marks were actually his skin. Kalluk’s skin had been exposed due to the “love bites” by Chinook during breeding season! That’s when I learned that polar bears have black skin. Lindsey was very helpful. She answered all our questions. It was a great learning experience. Thank you, Lindsey.
JoAnne please blog more! To reduce our carbon footprint we drive a hybrid car, use only energy saving lights, seldom use heat and seldom use the air conditioner. We recycle glass, newspapers and magazines.
March 30th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
YES more updates……i live less than 1 mile from work and my 4.5 year vw has less than 17000 miles, i use the energy saving bulbs, use recycle paper toilet paper (i know tmi), and try and eat local produce, meat and wine…luckily in ca we have lots of local wineries