I’m a Big Kid Now!
Posted at 11:42 am February 23, 2007 by Ellie RosenbaumThe separation of Bai Yun and Su Lin is complete, and after what we saw on Saturday morning and early afternoon, it was exactly the right time! For more than two hours, Bai rebuffed any nursing attempt by Su Lin, pursuing the cub and sitting on her; pursuing Su Lin and pinning her down with her paws; grabbing the baby with her teeth, usually gently but firmly, but occasionally hard enough to elicit a squeak of protest from the cub. This is similar to what we have seen before as Bai has separated from her two previous cubs, Hua Mei and Mei Sheng, and as of Saturday evening, the door between them closed forever.
In the wild, mother pandas have been seen literally chasing the cubs out of their range or wandering off to feed and simply not coming back to the cub. While this seems harsh, there are seveal good reasons for this. Panda cubs double in size from 18 months to 3 years, and no adult panda wants to share a bamboo supply with a hungry, fast-growing cub. In addition, adult females may go into heat and Bai Yun may now be showing possible signs of an upcoming estrus. During breeding season, many males may come into a female’s range, and they aggressively spar for breeding rights. It’s safer for the cub to be far away from this potentially dangerous interaction.
Many of us have waited for another chance to watch this separation process with great anticipation. Bai was firm but gentle with Hua Mei, and decidedly more aggressive with young male Mei Sheng. Were these observed differences due to her experience as a mother, or were they gender-related? Since cubs separate from their mothers after a relatively short period of time, mothers have to impart much, if not most, panda knowledge to their cubs pretty quickly. Bai Yun has proven to be quite skilled at this, a tribute, no doubt, to her own mother, Dong Dong.
Bai Yun once again used the gentle-but-firm approach with Su Lin, which might indicate that male and female cubs are reared differently – but wait! Su Lin is the most independant and was the least demanding of Bai Yun’s three youngsters, so how much of Bai’s approach was in fact gender and how much was a reflection of her cub’s mellow nature? Ah, research – the more we learn, the more questions there are to anwer and we have nearly two more years to seek the answers, with a little help from Bai Yun, Gao Gao and their delightful offspring. With spring coming, who knows? There may be more offspring in the offing! It’s all up to Gao Gao and, of course, Bai Yun.
Ellie Rosenbaum is an educator/panda narrator at the San Diego Zoo.
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February 23rd, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Excellent description – and very much appreciated. You guys are the pros – so I never had any doubts that things would go as well as expected. I think it’s interesting that male animals, as well as some male humans (well, maybe most…) need a little extra ” push” to leave momma! The bottom line is that we never want to experience a world where there are no more pandas – and thanks to your excellent care, knowledge and wisdom – hopefully that will never happen. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for our furry friends – they certainly are a joy to watch and learn about.
February 23rd, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Cheryl#1 you couldn’t have said it any better and also my thanks to everyone who made this transition as easy as possible.
February 23rd, 2007 at 1:13 pm
Thanks Ellen for a very much appreciated and anticipated answer to the question of what Bai Yun would do to let you know affirmatively that this is the day and time for the separation. Although she later let Su Lin nurse, from your description she was very determined that this was going to stop now. It explains most of what we have seen on the camera from Saturday.
What was Bai Yun up to yesterday with all her pacing, and how did Su Lin’s day go yesterday. Tuesday seemed to be much calmer than Monday, and Wednesday she seemed to be lounging very peacefully. Since we couldn’t see her on the camera yesterday, it is hard to know if she is indeed moving along in accepting the separation as her mother obviously has. Bai Yun is finally getting some well deserved rest after raising a cub for 19 months.
Su Lin has demonstrated that she can ” chow down” on bamboo when she needs/wants to, so she will be just fine as far as her nutritional needs go. She is a blessed bear to have so many loving care providers behind the scenes ready to scratch her every itch and give her soothing talk to make her day better.
Thanks for a wonderful ” fill in the gaps” explanation.
February 23rd, 2007 at 2:29 pm
4:25PM Ohio time…just seeing what I think is Su Lin on the webcam C15. Is she banished to her bedroom? I thought I didn’t see her for the last 2 days; is this to help settle down Bai and Su? I hope the keepers extra TLC makes her happier; and the time to pass where she (and Bai too) can be back out and about, by each other and not be stressed. My first time with this weaning process…thanks for bearing with me (pardon the pun).
February 23rd, 2007 at 2:34 pm
I totally agree with Cheryl. Thank you so much for the excellent and detailed description of this transition. Inspite of being a ” pandaholic” but a layman concerning panda behaviour I was so pleased to learn about the weaning process. I am certain that you were able to put all our minds at rest! Good luck to Bai Yun who seems to be getting into ” the mood” now as well as to Su Lin who after a short while apart from her mother will most probably start enjoying her new independence.
February 23rd, 2007 at 2:41 pm
Su Lin looks quite curious and content in her new ” Bedroom.” She looked around bright eyed, then leaned over an flopped down on the ” shelf” for a nap. I guess it must be time to load up the afternoon meal and spruce up her exhibit space a bit. She looks tiny in this particular room, smaller than she has looked in a while. I think it is just perspective of the camera view. She and Tai have grown so big, that it is often hard to tell whether you are looking at them or their mothers until you see the profiles together.
She looks like a well-fed happy young lady.
February 23rd, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Thank you to everyone at SDZ for holding our collective hand throughout the weaning process. I appreciate all the detailed information you regularly gave us and the differing points of view you posted on the blog. I think it was a stressful experience for us panda lovers because most of us have not worked with pandas and cannot witness the subtle changes that you experts observe in the bears each day. So, despite all your reassurances, we might have let our anxiety get the upper hand in speculating about what our beloved Bai and Su were experiencing. As Cheryl so aptly put it, we are so grateful for all your wonderful efforts in ensuring that we and future generations can live in a world with pandas and experience the same joy we have watching them on pandacam and at the zoo.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:31 pm
I remember watching Mei Sheng, when he was still with his mom, in the same spot I now see Su Lin (C15). It would be nice if there was a howdy gate that the two could start to get to know each other.
February 23rd, 2007 at 7:59 pm
Thanks once again for getting us through another weaning process. It was obvious from some of our 1st time watchers that they were concerned about our little girl Su but for those who have watched this several times, we knew everything would be OK. Look at the wonderful job Bai and our keepers did with Hua Mei and Mei Sheng!!! I always felt very early on that Su was very independent and Ellie pointed out how independent and less demanding she was. Su Lin will be a wonderful mother like her sister and own Mom. Mei Sheng is a very well adjusted and lovable bear from everything I’ve ever read about him. Keep up the great job SDZ – we all love you for it!!!!
February 24th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
Thanks for posting the revised camera number information for us to use. I’m glad that Su Lin will be back on the cams tomorrow, according to the note there. Moving her away from where she and Bai Yun can hear one another hopefully will help both of them go through this with less stress. She’d just be crying alone in the wild, with no keepers to comfort her, so this is better than it might have been for her. Sigh…it’s the way that Mother Nature does things, even though we all wish she were gentler.
I’m glad we can learn so much about the pandas and how they do things at various stages. It wouldn’t be possible if we didn’t have the keepers, interpreters and other staff to teach us as they learn, too.
Many thanks for letting us have a window-seat view re what is happening as it goes on in their daily lives, no matter where we live.
February 24th, 2007 at 10:41 pm
I think there is something else we should consider as we thank the staff members of our zoos, and it was manifested in a most horrific way. A male jaguar killed a keeper at the Denver zoo today. No matter how beautiful they are, no matter how much we love them – even our Pandas – these creatures are wild animals, and they can be extremely dangerous. So not only are the keepers, veterinarians, indeed, all zoo staff, wonderful people who love animals, they are also brave. One slip, one careless moment, one mistake, one misjudgement of an animal’s mood, can have devastating consequences. So I thank you all, not only for your love, teaching, dedication, and care, but also for your courage. Be careful out there!
February 25th, 2007 at 6:17 am
I note that from today 25th Feb.’07, Su Lin will be on c’s 27,28,29 as the next part of her development.
I live in England and have viewed the PandaCam from when it was first introduced, and seen how Hua Mei was introduced to new situations and later to be folllowed by Mei Sheng who are both a great credit to Bai Yun and all their keepers.
Su Lin seems to have taken her move to c’s 11,15,17 in her stride, to me did not appear stressed, possibly slightly apprehensive with her new surroundings on 23rd Feb when she encountered the ‘indoor’ climbing frame c15, however by mid afternoon she was relaxed and rolling on her back. During this period Bai Yun (with the smiling face) was on c4 eating as always and being her usual relaxed self.
On the 24th Feb.’07 at 9.00am c15 Su Lin was playing with her ball, a ’stressed animal’ would not behave in this manner and by mid morning was exploring the climbing frame. During late afternoon Su Lin ventured to c11 for a welcome bamboo feast and progressed to c17 to see what it held in store for her then later back for a sleep on her ‘bench’ c15.
I saw no signs of distress and think that Su Lin will gradually adapt to her new surroundings and the ‘climbing frame’ etc on c’s 27,28,29.
The location brings back memories of when they were small cubs and were located in a ’shelter’ in the area near to the ‘pool’ – for awhile when they were ‘called in’ Mei Sheng remained behind and was collected by his keeper and carried back to be with Bai Yun.
I think this is the area where lovely Shi Shi (father of Hua Mei) used to sit and eat his bamboo (please correct me if I am wrong)
As a long term observer I am confident that Su Lin will progress and be a credit to all staff and keepers, just like Hua Mei and Mei Sheng.
Thank you to all staff and keepers at SDZ……you are doing a great job
February 25th, 2007 at 9:12 am
I have so enjoyed and been fascinated by our beautiful pandas. Su Lin is an adorable young panda lady and is so much fun to watch. Bai Yun has done a terrific job of raising three cubs. She’s a pro at this! You all there have done a terrific job as well, and it is due to your expertise and love for the pandas that they are prospering so well. I know this time of weaning Su isn’t easy, but it is a necessary part of life. I am learning so much as I watch the cam and read the blogs. I am amazed at what these animals know to do instinctively, especially how Bai has mothered her cubs.
Keep up the fantastic work you are doing. I wish I could send hugs to each of you and the pandas.
February 25th, 2007 at 11:13 am
Our cute little Su Lin is currently munching on bamboo and exercising her paws to become a more skillful handler of bamboo. I am so happy to see her becoming a young adult panda!
February 25th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
Since GaoGao is now in Exhibit 2, and Su Lin appears to be in one of the older extra spaces in the back, does that mean she will not be on exhibit again until after BaiYun and GaoGao breed in late March? Does she have access to any tall trees in the back exhibit where Mei Sheng and GaoGao were hanging out while she was learning to be on her own? She appears to rest most comfortablly on the shelf in the old indoor ” bedroom.” When she is on the platform on the climbing structure she seems to be somewhat restless in her sleep and appears to almost fall off when she turns over. At the moment she is laying on her back with her paws up in the air and could easily roll off on her side if she isn’t careful.
She does not appear to have as much space to climb about in the enclosure she currently is in. Is that the case, or is the outdoor open air portion of the enclosure out of camera range?
How are the plans coming to potentially allow Mei Sheng and Su Lin to interact socially? Where would you do that, and how would you introduce them to each other? Is there a door between the off exhibit spaces similar to that in Exhibit 1 and 2? If so can they be encouraged to explore between exhibits? Otherwise it seems to me that who goes into the enclosure first and who is later introduced could make a difference in how they accept each other’s presence.
It is an exciting prospect but as in all things Panda, requires a great deal of research, planning, and somewhat precise timing. Besides I am sure you will need extra keepers on hand just in case the unexpected happens.
February 25th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
Thank you, Ellie for the Su Lin/Bai Yun separation update. All of you at the SDZ do a superb job with the care of the animals and the education of the humans. Your ongoing research is truly amazing and will ensure the survival of many endangered species. Your comments regarding the separation process by gender was interesting. Don’t you think that boys of many species, including humans, are slower to mature? Like you said, it could be the gender or it could be the personality of the animal, they are all unique.
Little Su Lin is such a darling baby girl…she will always be ” our” cute little baby girl. Sniff, sniff…she grew up too fast. It truly is a bittersweet time to watch her grow into an adult panda, missing her babyhood but awestruck by her beautiful and fascinating qualities and skills of becoming an adult. Personally, I love her easy going, mellow nature that takes everything in stride. We could all learn something from little Su Lin.
February 25th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
I am a Pandaholic, and love every second of watching these magnificent creatures. I’ve watched Tai, Su Lin and now Mei Lun from the first days of their lives.
I do have a question about our Su Lin, every time I have seen her in the past 2 days, she has been indoors, does she not have access to outside now, or is it just because the cameras aren’t out there? I miss seeing her hanging from her trees, 20′ off the ground! This afternoon, I watched her on her tiny platform, how she got comfy is beyond me….it’s a panda thing, I guess …. could you at least get her something a little larger, she’s a growing girl, afterall!
Thank all of you at the zoo, for our pandas and the opportunity to see and learn about them.
February 25th, 2007 at 6:19 pm
Has Bai Yun acted like she knows that Su Lin is no longer ” next door” and that GaoGao is back in the neighborhood? Obviously she is used to his smell since he lived there from time to time prior to the month that she and Su Lin were exploring there. Since she no longer can hear Su Lin, I am curious if she acts like she can hear anyone in the area and what she does to react to new sounds?
Do you have any plans to re-introduce them? I believe Suzanne mentioned that you would be moving GaoGao next door so it would be easier for introductions ” if they are necessary.”
Su Lin seems to be much calmer in the new enclosure today? Were there any significant things that happened yesterday to make her feel more comfortable, or is she just getting more accustomed to her new environment? How long do you plan to leave her where she is with the wire fence over her head?
February 25th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
Thank you for letting the web cam viewer’s see Su Lin over the weekend. She has her mother’s smile, which she seemed to show to her caretakers. Being in the original bedroom she and her mom shared had to make her feel better, with Bai Yun’s scent all around.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:12 am
I have always had such an attachment to the panda…although my logic tells me this is nature…it leaves a little bit of sadness in my heart..and as I read the pattern of rejecting the cub so that they can move on…it’s just sad…but Su Lin will be fine. And for us ….we wait for the announcement of a new cub in the very near future…or perhaps twins…is the carrot that keeps us hanging in there!!!
Goodbye childhood…hello world!!!!
February 26th, 2007 at 9:44 am
Do you think that Su Lin can still smell the area she is in now as her previous bedroom, she seems to be quite at ease with her surroundings,maybe she can’t remember the sights as she was quite young when she left that room.It doesn’t seem that long ago that she was moving in circles in the birthing den and a little nervous of moving over the threshold,time really does go too fast .Great news on the first pandas born in China this year…triplets! wow! heres hoping everything goes well with them,is it quite rare to have them this early or could panda adults have an estrus twice a year or could it be because the mother is the eldest at the centre and her estrus could be a bit out of sync as she is coming to the end of her reproductive life? too many questions!!
February 26th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
If Su Lin is in the area she was a tiny cub, is it the same den that Bai Yun will use for her cubs hopefully to be born this Summer? If so, where will Su Lin be at that time?
Su Lin appears today to be back to her normal mode of eating away, then napping, then eating, etc. She appears to be quite content have adjusted to her new environment. How long will she be where she currently is? Do you plan to move her to one of the off-exhibit areas to provide her further enrichment?
March 10th, 2007 at 8:13 am
I am somewhat puzzled by the above comments as a friend of mine who visited the zoo says he witnessed some disturbing scenes with the little girl panda crying and the Mother in some distress. I have been watching the webcams with my children and I think the bears have been upset, to say the least. My kids said Bai Yun was still feeding the baby the day before they took her, my wife confirms this. I am concerned at my children possibly witnessing animals not being treated properly. I used to work for a safari park zoo here in the UK and things were not always so good. It has been closed for years, but I recall the tigers being stressed and unhappy.
Are you all sure everything is alright? Really sure?
Incidentally, we had brown bears and their cubs stay with them for longer than 18 months, and I was told that pandas are the same. I would be interested to hear more of this. What about what the fella saw?
March 20th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
How sad it is for all of us who have watched Su Lin separated from Mommy. We must remember these are wild animals, not fuzzy people, & animal nature knows what is correct at the time. My heart broke when Tia Shan was separated from Mei Xiang. But I do have a question – all of these baby pandas raised in captivity have the advantage of extra love & support from their keepers. How can we expect these poor babies to survive in the wild???