Hello, Panda Fans! Here in the San Diego Zoo’s Education Department, we are busy preparing for the big Black & White Overnight this weekend! We’re super excited for all the special activities and experiences we have planned for our campers, and though we are sold out, we certainly want to include others, SO….
At exactly 8:30 a.m. on Sunday, August 22, the panda keepers will turn the Panda Cam on our group of campers so that we can all wave to you from the Giant Panda Research Station! Set your alarm so you can see your friends, and if you are coming to the overnight, spread the word!
AFTER the weekend, our staff will post a blog with highlights from the event and give all those that attended a chance to share their stories and comments! We encourage everyone to post pictures on facebook and on the Zoo’s flickr page: http://www.flickr.com/groups/sandiegozoo.
I’m looking forward to a great weekend of panda (and other black and white animal) fun. If you couldn’t join us this weekend, we still have two more adult-only sleepovers this year and three Halloween family sleepovers. We’re not focusing on pandas for those, but they are still fun, and there is still time to sign up. Join us!
Adult Critter Campout (21+), August 28
Extreme Sleepover (21+), September 11
Halloween FAMILY sleepovers (4yrs+), October 16, 23, and 30.
Silvan Davidson is an education specialist and Sunni Robertson is a lead educator at the San Diego Zoo.
To everyone going to the Black & White Overnight have a great time. I’m want to hear all about it next week and see all the pictures.
Great Idea!!!! We will be watching for the Wave and Waving back! The weekend will be a blast for everyone attending!!
Ohh I soooooo wish I could go. Kisses to Yun Zi!
I will be watching for everyone who is attending to be waving. Everyone who is attending, have fun.
I’m so sad that I can’t go.
oxoxo
OMG I can hardly wait – we’ll be seeing you all soon in Panda Canyon! This is going to be too much fun!!! Silvan – you guys have outdone yourselves!!!!
The black and white over night sounds so fun! I wish I could go! I will try and wake up at 8:00! I wonder who is going? Bye!
Peace, Love and Pandas CIAO!
Dear Panda Friends,
Have fun with the beloved Pandas! It will be early morning here but I will try to ‘wave’ to all of you.
Peace,
Lucilla
Lucilla and P Wong and Joseph have told us excellent stories to lighten our moods and give us hope during this time before the girls’ departure.
Wish I could be there too!
I couldnt make it this weekend, but have plans for the end of September. Even more now that the girls are leaving I wish I could be there with everyone. I am praying that SL and ZZ are still there when I do arrive. Wishing everyone going this weekend much fun and safe travels.
Have a great time everyone!!!!! Wish I could be there!
BTW, thank you SDZ for including us.
Sure wish I lived nearby so I could join this group. What fun!!
I’ll be watching!!
Love you pandas!!
WOW………Enjoy your B&W moment everyone!!!!!!!
8.30am will be around 10pm in Thailand….I’ll make sure to have the SDZ Panda cam on the screen and wave back. Why didn’t you had such the event when I was still living in the states……?
Moderator: Please have someone wipe off the dirt from Panda cam’s lens protector so that I can see all faces clearly…..
Oh, how exciting!!! I’m all packed and set to join the other lucky ones who will be there this weekend! Thank you, SDZ, for making this possible!
Panda Pals,
Have a terrific time at the Black & White Overnight. I wish I lived a lot closer or I would be there too. Give all the Pandas a kiss from me. Especially that Yun Zi, who is my first Panda that I have fallen in love with. BearLove that is…lol. I’ll try to wake up in time to see the wave. Oh but it’s PST so it will be 11:30am where I am unless I am really lazy. Have a Pantastic time folks.
Blessings,
Dawn
RITA PETITA HAS TAKEN SOME LOVELY PHOTOS OF SU LIN in the evening, and has put them on her Flikr pages one and two. Here is her link in case you do not have it handy.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ritapetita/
I can’t wait to go!!! I will wave to all of you panda lovers at home…….. we will all send hugs to our furry friends for you!!
Pamda, Marie, Annie Panda, Dianna from Ohio, Anne in NYC and everyone – I’m glad to hear that you enjoyed thee videos.
Dianna, Ohio – I can’t imagine what will happen to Thai fans when LP has to be back to China…But to to tell you the truth, I personally will be very happy for her. LP’s a natural tree climber, I feel sorry for her everyday that she can’t be outside doing what she supposes to do. Due to the climate here in Thailand, It’s only 3 – 4 months with limited time per day that will be cool enough for CC, LH and LP to be outdoor safely. Honestly, I prefer to see her at where she belongs to rather than at the zoo. By the way, Did I ever tell you about a discovery of Giant Panda Fossil here in Northern of Thailand? Yes, indeed, they did find the skull of ancient animal which was specified to be the fossil of giant panda later on.
Danielle, NY – I heard about a panda girl in China whose weight is more than LP (compare at the same age) and she also has a biological relation with CC.
Lucilla – AHA!!! Finally, a reveal of our Panda tale teller, you’re not that far from CMZ after all.
I quote part of your entry from previous blog to tell a funny story about CC, LH and Thai’s Boo;
Lucilla said
“There has been an article where one of the zoo keepers has gone to China to meet the pair and to offer them the bamboo we have here. They sniffed at the boo and turned it down. So we have to see which varieties they like.”
CMZ panda keeper told the story that CMZ used to import bamboo from China to feed CC and LH during the early years of their staying. They found out by chance that CC and LH enjoy eating Thai boo more than imported boo from their motherland…..well…..it happened when the keeper made the toys from Thai boo for both CC and LH. And all the Boo toys were always gone down to their tummies. After that CMZ decided not to order anymore boo from China. The difference of Thai and Chinese bamboo, Thai bamboo is larger in size both the stalks and leaves and it’s probably tastier. (I guess, and no I never try
) Before feeding the panda, keeper will have to chop the boo stalks to make it convenient for the pandas. Another funny truth is that CMZ panda keeper will have to taste the sweetness of the boo first before harvest them.
Have fun at the Black and White and will definitely look for the wave!
What a great Idea!
I will try to wave to all of you from Italy by web cam.
Ciao Ciao
Claudia
Su Lin and ZZ’s Top 10 list of things we will miss about USA
1) Mama and Papa
Rock and Roll Music (ZZ’s, more than mine – SU)
2) Brother Yun Zi
3) Nanny Keepers
4) Aunty Weeta and other dear unckers and aunties
5) Panda Convention
6) Approws
7) Californian Sunshine
9) Our dear animal friends at SDZ
10) American Soaps (Su’s more than mine – ZZ)
Hee Hee.
Su and Zee
I will be waving back…I know how much fun you will have…just enjoy and a ‘thank you’ to the SDZ staff for sharing it with all of us.
I assume that is 8:30 Pacific time…..Sounds like fun. Wish I could join you. But I will tune in.
Lucilla #83 from previous post. Thank you for the information re Singapore’s pandas schedule. I have been to Chiang Mai and seen LH and CC but that was in 2008, before LP was born . I’m going to the next panda convention and would love to meet you there. Am saving too to go to China in 2012.
Watch the cam! Zhennie is being hilarious right now. She is in and out of a crate – tore out the excelsior, found her toy, rocked the crate, stuck her head in it, played like it was a choo choo train, then went running up a tree and catapulted down. WOW – we will REALLY miss you, ZZ!
I just loved watching ZZ this morning playing with the box full of paper shredding. she sure does enjoy life and is very dramatic, I sure will miss her. Thank you panda keepers for letting us enjoy watching her play.
I was the first person to sign up for the Black & White Overnight and then had to cancel due to surgery, so today I was feeling a little sad reading about all who are travelling to San Diego for the event. But then, the cameras showed Su Lin eating her boo and then the camera shifted to Zhen Zhen.
Zhen Zhen and her box of shredded paper. Oh what a show she put on. It could easily be the best ‘on the ground’ antics I have ever seen from her! I had to laugh because the box she was trying to stuff herself into was similiar in appearance to a small crate. I just started laughing that maybe she was putting on a show mocking her crate training?!?!?
Then she was high in the trees – ZZ style. Does she know her time in San Diego is coming to a close and she is showing us her best!!!!! Love you little one.
I wonder who is going to the Black & White Overnight? I wish I could go, but I’m not old enough.
I will make sure to watch the panda cam at exactly 8:30! How long will the people be waving for? I hope everybody has a great time! Peace, Love and Pandas CIAO!
P.S. How are Su Lin and Zhen Zhen doing?
Moderator’s note: Both girls are quite well.
Black and White Overnighters, enjoy your weekend and take lots of photos and videos to share … and fill us in on all the details ASAP
I plan on recording “the wave”, so you’ll be able to see what we saw on PandaCam as we were waving back, lol!
I was thrilled to see Zhen Zhen this morning zipping and zooming as she played in her box filled with shavings and a surprise! It’s long, it’s uncut, and it’s pure Zhennie magic
2010-08-20 Zhen Zhen Zoom-Zooms in her Box!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipZXRhxEFIo
Moderator’s note: That was a great play session. Thanks for sharing it, DoxieMom!
Wish I could be there, too. Don’t know if I’ll be home but will try to watch for you online, fellow panda fans. My husband’s dad just moved into a hospice this week, and I’m finding panda antics, as well as panda “fan-antics” are a teriffic mood booster.
Panda peace.
Cindy
Have a BEARY NICE TIME at the Black and White Overnite!!! Hope you get to see all our beloveds while you are their enjoying yourselves!!
Kat
To All: Do NOT miss DoxiMom’s video of Zhen Zhen on 8/20!!!!
Here’s the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipZXRhxEFIo&feature=sub
I wish I could be there too! But I’ll be watching from home.
Hope everyone has a great time.
I hope everybody has a great time! I’d love to come next year! Hope this becomes an annual event. Can’t wait to see everybody wave on Sunday and of course, the pictures.
Doximom, OMG that video of ZZ was the best. I haven’t laughed so hard in so long. Thank you so much for capturing it. What a silly Panda girl she is, and boy does she ever know how to have a good time.
#31 DoxieMom – Thank you so much for recording and posting that video, which might be the best video of Zhen Zhen ever!!! I love when she try to fit into the box at the end of the video.
I hope it is a sign that she is not traumatized by being in her crate for training for her trip. The Chinese keepers will have their hands full with her….
Bobbie #34 – That video is incredibly funny. HUGE Thanks to DoxiMom for posting. Reminds me of a Warren Zevon song, “Party for the Rest of the Night.”
Cindy
#31 DoxieMom — PURE DELIGHT! You will laugh out loud as you enjoy Zhen roll, somersault and dive into her shavings. She is so inventive in her play. One of the best ever. No one should miss this one. Thank you, DoxieMom.
I see on the August Wish List that the Pandas didn’t get any takers for the ‘Crane Rental For Panda Enrichment’ @ $3,020.00. I wonder why not, ha ha.
Anways, I have an idea. Why don’t we all get together and donate $5 or $10 each and do this in honour of Su Lin and Zhen Zhen. The write-up says “to place new climbing structures and trees in the panda exhibits” and we all know how much Su and Zhen love to climb. I really feel that this would be a fitting reminder of how much they mean to us all. I will start it off with a $25.00 donation.
Moderator’s note: Thank you, Lee. What a wonderful idea! Here’s the link to the August Wish List…
DoxieMom–thank you so much for the video of Zoomie with her box!
This video should be required watching for her new Nannykeepers–so they see just who they’ll be taking care of! Also required viewing for anyone who needs a good long laugh. Just amazing.
Love you, Zhennie!
Oh my goodness! I’ve seen Zhennie in some great play sessions, but she saved the best for last. That box video from this morning is a classic!
I will watch that many times to console myself when she leaves. That video is the pure essence of Zhen Zhen.
Thank you DoxieMom for capturing it!
(Link in comments #31 and #34)
#41 Lee and Moderator
Great Idea!! How can we make the smaller donations and mark them for this purpose? Am I missing a link on the Donation page?
Moderator’s note: I’ll see what can be done.
I saw Yun Zi get some special treatment this afternoon, one of the panda keepers couldnt keep her hands off of him. We all can understand that, hes just so adorable
I do have to admit I was a bit jealous…..
OH NO, YunZi went to detention again today after going after his Nannykeeper. When will he ever learn, lol.
DOXIEMOM: What a precious gift you have given us with the latest antics of Ms. ZZ. When we are missing her we will have this clip to return to time and again and can smile for the joy and happiness she always brought to our lives. Thank you SO much.
I know that all of you participating in the Black & White overnight will have a wonderful time. I so wish I could be joining you, but will have to be on my computer Sunday at 8 PDT. Which means 11 a.m. for me, I am sure I can manage that. Zhen Zhen was having fun hanging in the trees this morning, what a hoot. Hey maybe she was visiting the squirrels and birds that live in them (idea for a story for all our excellent writers, how does Zhennie say goodbye to all her tree pals).
Take loads of pics and videos for those of us too far or just unable to make the trip.
I look forward to detailed reports from all of you.
But have fun too.
Moderator: If the panda team has not decided yet who was going to accompany the girls on their trip to China, in my humble opinion, the person who came up with the idea of the box for Zhen Zhen has definitively won that ticket, as she/he would have no problem entertaining the girls during their long trip!!!
Doxiemom: Another great video of ZZ! I wonder if her box antics has anything to do with her crate training for her trip to China?
DOXIEMOM: Hope you will have been able to capture some of the last 2 hours or so of mama and baby. They just haven’t quit!! Been an absolute delight. I really have to go to work now!
#41 Lee in Vancouver and moderator- I think that is such a great idea! I earned $15 for organizing the book shelf and I decided I want to use that money to donate to the “Crane Rental for Panda Enrichment”. My mom and I were trying to find out how to donate just $15 but it would only let us donate the full amount which is $3,020. Is there any way I can give just the $15? Thanks!
-Annie Panda
Moderator’s note: I’ve left a message with our Wish List coordinator to see if this is possible. Thanks, Annie Panda!
I was just on Flickr looking at the new photos and a couple old ones. I was looking at the ones of Su Lin and ZZ mostly, these are my 2 favorites:
Su Lin- http://www.flickr.com/photos/ritapetita/4909055369/
Zhennie- http://www.flickr.com/photos/ritapetita/4900698456/
Also, there was a sweet picture of Yunnie having “dinner” which reminds me that he is still our little boy.
Peace, Love and Pandas CIAO!
I wish I could go, but…. my heart will be with all of you.
Big Hugs!
Doxie, just looked at the ZZ video and laughed myself silly. What a funny girl she is. BFX has no idea what they are in for with her. She will keep them on their toes/
# 7 ANNIE PANDA So glad you wrote it made me check again—8:30 A. M.—-for some reason I was thinking p. m. Now I do not know if I am awake either time—-but at least I have half a chance……Thank You.
#25 SUE FROM MASSACHUSETTES –YES THAT IS PACIFIC TIME A. M.—–For some reason I thought it was p. m.—silly me.
# 31 DOXIEMOM Thank you so much ZZ was in fine form.
#53 PANDA ANNIE What great taste you have…….I loved those three photos too. I figured if the Panda Boys in China see the one of Sweet Su she would have a half dozen offers of engagement by the time she gets there…..or maybe even before they get there.
WooHoo. Looking forward to that. I’ll be there. Have a great weekend guys.
Happy Birthday to Hua Mei. Would love to see a picture of her with her cake surrounded by all her cubbies
Dear Friends,
Yes, the 2 Pandas coming to Singapore from BFX are Hu Bao and Wu Jie. I found an artilce from May 2010 on it. They will be subadults when they come, just about 3 years old. So it cant be easy for their nanny keepers to part with them. In Singapore, there is growing excitement. Singapore can keep these Pandas for 10 years. I think I will be getting a Friend of the Zoo pass, hee hee.
Am still wanting to come and see Master Gao Yun Zi, Mr Gao and Madam Bai Yun.
Blessings,
Lucilla
Dear Moderator,
I apologize if I’m asking 2 questions that have already been answered. For a very long time I was glued to the panda-cam, but personal health issues and other problems have prevented me from enjoying them for a few months now. I’ve missed all our pandas and my adopted son, Yun Zi terribly, and recently decided that I HAVE to find a way to start watching more for my personal health. My love for them and their beauty, innocence and antics help me in ways that no doctors have been able to. In tuning in today, I learned that Zhen Zhen will be leaving along with Su Lin. This hurts like a double-edged sword going through me, but I must admit I AM happy the sisters will be traveling together. I’m praying they will help each other stay calm and unafraid. There is no way of me coming to visit them before they go, I live on the east coast. Health and finances makes that an impossibility. My questions for you are: Will we still be able to see them on the panda-cams? Does anyone know when the actual date is for when they will be leaving? Sorry, one more question. Is there ANYTHING I can send that will be given specifically to Su Lin and Zhen Zhen? Since I adopted Yun Zi, I feel like they are like my nieces and I would SO love to send them something just for them especially. I know you would not be able to accept anything I made for them (not that I have a recipe for Panda Biscuits lying around anyway). But could I send a check that would cover the cost of making a batch of a really special treat just for them? Obviously, I hope it wouldn’t be exorbitant in cost. I even thought of making them a toy of some sort that they could take with them, but I wouldn’t feel confident that I was making something panda-proof (I don’t care if they played rough and broke whatever I made, but I wouldn’t want them getting hurt by it. I know I probably won’t be allowed, but I have to ask, because I love them and it is what is in my heart to want to do. Please understand, I will naturally accept whatever your answers are, but I need to ask. Thank you ahead of time for your understanding and response. I REALLY wish most of all that I could just give each one of them a big hug and kiss good-bye and say “I love you” to each of them; but I know that would never be allowed for my safety’s sake. Maybe I sound dumb, but I’d be willing to risk it, they just seem worth the risk. Thanks for all you do.
Phyllis
Moderator’s note: Su Lin and Zhen Zhen can still be seen from time to time on Panda Cam, depending on their crate-training and hearing study schedules, until their departure. It is very nice of you to offer to send the girls a special something, but they truly have all they need right now, and they can’t take all of their favorite toys with them. However, there are so many other animals that can benefit from your kindness and many ways to donate, depending upon your area of interest. A good place to start is our Donate page, which explains a variety of giving opportunties.
Happy ELEVENTH ( :-O ) Birthday Hua Mei!
I hope she has a great day in China and gets fabulous treats! She is so special and sweet and I hope her and her cubs are doing well!! Love you lots, Hua Mei!
Peace, Love and Pandas CIAO!
To my fellow Pandaholics! Sorry I cannot be there to share this experience with you! Have much fun, send kisses to our black and white babies.l
Pamda, that is so sad, I am sorry about you not being able to go to the panda party. I am not able to go ether, I am in a different state.
#63 Britney – Thank you for your kind words. We are lucky that there has been so much great panda action on the webcam earlier today. I hope you were able to see some of it. I’ll be setting the alarm for the panda wave and know we will be joined by other blog friends from around the world.
Thank you Doxiemom for the pictures of Zhen Zhen playing with the box. She tried to get her whole body
in the box. I will miss her when she goes to China. I hope they enjoy her as much as we did.
She is just a joy to see and watch. Just full of energy and interest, She seems like a very happy panda.
Thanks again.
lu
Thanks so much DoxieMom for that funny video of ZZ. How adorable. What a personality she has. All these Pandas have their very unique personality. Yunnie is quite a character. Hopefully videos and the webcam of him & his antics will help to ease the pain of our two lovely ladies going to China. I hope we’ll be updated on the girls when they are in China. While watching ZZ’s video, I was thinking that both her & Su Lin will be great Moms like their very own Mom. What a gift we are giving China & the World. We raised these lovely bears and they are so good and letting them go back to their “homeland” to one day be back into nature where they belong and hopefully not endangered.
Blessings to all!
Dawn
I think Lee from Vancouver’s idea is great for the crane rental in honor of Su Lin & Zhen Zhen. I would be willing to donate $25 towards it. These pandas give me so much joy & calm my soul at night. It’s the least I could do. Is there a way you could organize this so we Pandaholics from the blog could put the money in a separate account to go towards this crane for the Pandas? I am sure you could think of something…lol.
Peace & Joy,
Dawn
At 8.30am on 22 Aug, I saw only Su Lin waving at me. Where’re everyone? Anyway Su Lin’s so beautiful. She looked so calm and relaxing upon that huge tree trunk. I bet she ‘s gonna give the world many beautiful panda cubs for sure…….
Moderator’s note: It’s not quite 8:30 a.m. yet (our Panda Cam clock is a bit off!).
thanks for the wave! We were watching!
What a happy group!!! It looks like everyone had a great time. I am glad I caught the wave.
I was waving back…what a bunch of ‘happy campers’.
How wonderful to see you all looking so happy. Thank you for the wave. ZZ was really having fun with her box and Su Lin just loves those trees. Hope you all had a great weekend.
At 8.47am, the panda cam swapped to ZZ who’s having so much fun with something looked like boxes. Our energetic panda girl, ZZ was in her usual play mode. I guess those boxes were part of the B&W overnight activities, making toys for the Gao Family, am I right?
THANK YOU!!! I got on the panda cam just before 11:30 edt, and thought I had missed this!! The video time is off…anyway! How FUN!! There were a lot of people there!! I wish I lived closer to San Diego so I could participate. I hope everyone got a last look at the 2 girls as well. Our Happy Travelers! ZZ was my first cub to see born and watch grow up!! I will be anxiously watching for news of her in her new hiome!!
Thank you again SDZ staff!! You all ROCK our panda world!!!
Another great Zhen Zhen play session from June 10, 2010, can be seen at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEjQ77Ep-3E&feature=related. There is also one from July 5, 2010. We need to get our Zhen Zhen fix while we can, and go back often to see the videos people have shared after she and Su Lin leave in couple of weeks.
Has there been more major redecoration done in Su Lin’s yard? I did not see the tree stump on Cam 1, but noticed a lot of new deadfall trees and climbing structures. She seems to be enjoying them at 11:42 AM PDT.
I heard per several Chinese sources articles that Su’s & Zhen’s departure is set for tomorrow, is that correct?
Moderator’s note: No.
Pamda, you are welcome. Yes I caught some action from Yun Zi.”our” pandas will cheer us up.
Thank you for the great video of Zhen Zhen and her box Doxiemom.
Moderator: do you know if the flooding in China is anywhere near where the pandas are?
Moderator’s note: I do not know.
Hi gang,
Hope the B & W went well! Looks like fun! I had a question for the moderator: Is there a way to slow down the video recap of previous days on the Panda Cam just a bit? Everything goes so fast that it’s hard to get a good view of our panda friends.
We appreciate your time in answering the many questions you get.
Moderator’s note: I don’t know of a way to slow down the time lapse–sorry!
I, too, would like to donate $25 towards the crane rental.
Moderator’s note: Thanks to suggestions from our amazing supporters, our Wish List has just been modified for those who would like to contribute to the rental of a crane to place new climbing structures and trees in the panda exhibit. Donations can be accepted in $10 increments.
Hope everyone had a fun time at the B&W Overnight and I look forward to seeing the blog post with the highlights and everyone’s tales from the event. I was supposed to be there, but someone in an SUV on my way to the airport changed those plans and I spent much of Friday in the ER. Don’t worry, I’m okay. I wasn’t awake yet to see the wave on Sunday, but saw a screen cap of the group on Flickr.
Moderator’s note: Brenda, I am so sorry to hear of your accident, but am glad you are okay.
Hi I got to participate in the Black and White Sleepover and it was a blast. We started the night with some meet and greet with some animal ambassaders (hedge hog and porcupine). We did a bus tour around the park and then met an Emu and zebra. After dinner, desert, and a very informative education talk about our pandas, we did a night walk where all the big cats and hyenas were going nuts. They put on quite a display for us. We started the next morning with a big breakfast buffet, shopping time at the Panda gift shop and as much time with the pandas as we want. Zhen Zhen was in the education enclosure LOVING that metal box in the pool with honey on it. Su Lin was calmly munching with her back to us. Bai Yun tore apart (my table’s) enrichment box before we even got there, but had a great time laying on her back lazily feeding herself bamboo. Our boy Yun Zi REFUSED to come down to his audience until after we all left. It was a great experience and I recommend it.
Moderator’s note: Thanks for sharing your experience with us, Ya-chi. We’ll have a blog post soon so campers can add their adventures to the comments.
#81 Panda Mama: Maybe Doxie Mom got it on video and posted it on UTUBE?
I so wish I could go!!! I love pandas just so darn much. Maybe next year I can come visit all of them. Hopefully
Hugs and Kisses to: Su Lin, Gao Gao, Bai Yun, Shi Shi, Hua Mei, Mei Sheng, Yun Zai, and Zhen Zhen:)
#81 PANDA MAMA It could be back 2 days, 2 weeks, but I think not more than 2 months ago that somebody mentioned in the blog that that they had a program they purchased for thier computer that slows the video equally to, or close enough for enjoyment of the web cam. The did not mention the manufacturer, and I am not sure if they mentioned what kind of program to ask about. So off to your computer Guru to find out what it is I guess that is what I need to do, too. I sure wish I thought of this sooner-more ZZ and Su to choose from.